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Sunday, April 24, 2011

39 Reasons the Trinity is False and the Godhead is True

By: Michael Flournoy

1. It is widely believed by Trinitarians that for someone to be a Christian, they must accept the Trinity as doctrine. Nowhere is this supported by scripture, in fact there are verses which state the opposite. Matthew 12:31 for example, states: Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. According to this verse, even if the Trinity is right, I can believe otherwise and still be forgiven, granted I don't blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

2. It isn’t uncommon for Christians to call the Trinity “mysterious”, “incomprehensible”, and “unknown and unknowable”. Yet Paul chastised the Greeks for this very thing at Mars Hill in The Acts 17:22-23 when he said, “Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.”

3. In Genesis 1:26-27 God makes man in His image and likeness. However, the Trinitarian view leaves nothing in common between God and man. We certainly have no triune nature, we are not merely spirits, we do not permeate the universe, nor are we mysterious. Thus man cannot exist in God’s image and likeness if the Trinity concept is accurate.

4. The Trinity is an anti-resurrection doctrine. How could Jesus truly have died if he literally is the Father and the Father never died? Or if part of his hypostatic union never perished? And if he never fully died, how could he have risen from the dead?

5. In the original Greek, John 4:24 doesn’t actually say God is a Spirit, it says simply that God is Spirit. Which could just as easily mean God is full of passion and righteousness, which is how the same verse instructs us to worship the one true God: in spirit and in truth. Even if John 4:24 is talking about God being a non-physical spirit, and that’s a big if, the S in Spirit is capitalized in most translations. Generally, Spirit with a capitalized S refers to the Holy Ghost. So John 4:24 is more likely saying the Holy Ghost also holds the title God than saying God has no physical form.

6. Trinitarians believe God has no body because Colossians 1:15 calls the Father the invisible God, even though Moses, Isaiah, and Stephen all saw Him. This clearly indicates a different meaning of invisible than the one used by Evangelicals.

7. We are made in the image and likeness of God, but Trinitarians insist this only means we have some Godly traits like love and compassion. But isn’t an image something that can be seen? In Genesis, Adam begets Seth in his “image and likeness”, which assumes Seth looked like his father. Colossians 1:15 states that Jesus is in the image of God. If we are made in the image of God, and Jesus is in that same image; and yet Jesus was so similar to us that the Pharisees where convinced he was a regular man, doesn’t it stand to reason we were made to resemble deity?

8. In Matthew 10: 19-20 Jesus tells his disciples, “But when they shall deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye should speak. For it shall be given you in that same hour what ye should speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that dwelleth in you.” Trinitarians take this verse to mean God is a spirit that can dwell in us. This is true, if we remember that the Holy Ghost holds the title God. Mark 11:13 says: But when they shall lead you and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate. But whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye. For it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. Since the term Spirit of the Father is synonymous with the Holy Spirit, there’s no reason to assume the Father doesn’t possess a physical form.

9. The scriptures do not agree with the idea that God is a spirit that permeates the universe. In 1 Kings 19 Elijah goes to commune with the Lord. Verses 11-12 state: And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And behold the Lord passed by and a great and strong wind rent the mountains and break in pieces the rocks before the Lord. But the Lord was not in the wind. And after the wind and earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. And after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire a still small voice. If it were true that God was a spirit which was everywhere and in everything, then he would be in these natural disasters, but He is absent.

10. Holy writ describes God as having hands, feet, a face, and back parts. These are all considered metaphorical by traditional Christianity although the Bible never gives any clear indication that they were meant to be interpreted that way.

11. In John 10:30 Jesus states, “I and my Father are one.” Trinitarians take this to mean that they are in fact the same person, sharing one essence. However, this actually means the Father and Son are one in their goals and actions, in the same way those who were building the tower of Babel were described as being one. It was divine unity, not physical oneness, that inspired Christ to say in his great intercessory prayer, “And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me that they may be one, as we are.”

12. Trinitarians take John 14:8-11 literally, where Jesus says, “Have I been so long time with you and yet hast thou not known me Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father. And how sayest thou then, shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father and the Father in me. The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me, or else believe me for the very works sake.” While a literal translation of John 14:8-11 supports one God with three forms, a metaphorical translation explains their perfect unity and fellowship. In verse 20 of the same chapter Christ says, “At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.” So if these verses are to be taken literally, then we must assume everyone may become part of the Trinity, and thus everyone may become God.

13. It is apparent in the Old Testament that God is speaking to someone during and after the creation story. Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness… Whoever God was speaking to, it had to be a being capable of creating man. Not only that, but this being must have had the same image and likeness of God in order for us to be made in the image and likeness of both. God could have been speaking to no one else but God. Furthermore the Hebrew word used for God is Elohim, a plural noun. The use of Elohim, along with plural pronouns, confirms that more than one God was involved in the creation. This also happens in Genesis 11:6-7.

14. In John 8:54 we read: Jesus answered, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God. In John 5:31 and 37 we read: If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me… If the Trinity concept is accurate, then according to his own words Christ has no honor nor is his witness true, since he’d have born witness of himself.

15. Trinitarians seem to have two opposing views of God. First, that no one can see God and live, and second, that God is an invisible spirit and there’s nothing to see. In the first chapter of his gospel, John records that no man has seen God at any time. But in chapter 6 this topic is revisited and added upon. We read: Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Apparently both views are erroneous.

16. Trinitarians disregard the First Vision because Joseph Smith saw a God who is in their opinion, unbiblical. However, the account of Stephen in The Acts 17, being martyred for his faith in Christ proves that Joseph could certainly have seen the Father and the Son in the way he described them: But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, behold I see heaven opened and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. Some will say that the Bible doesn’t explicitly say that Stephen saw the Father, but if Stephen did not see the Father how could he know Jesus was standing at his right? And speaking of standing on the right side, if it were true that God was a spirit that filled the entire expanse of space then there simply is no standing to the side of Him.

17. The Trinity is backed up only by philosophy and vast scriptural stretches. The Godhead on the other hand, is backed up by the First Vision and clear scriptural revelation in Doctrine and Covenants 130:22 which states: The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us. Even though the Trinity is a long-standing tradition in Christianity, the burden of proof clearly falls upon Trinitarians.

18. Trinitarians believe Jesus was never begotten or created, but Collossians 1:15 calls him the firstborn of every creature, and both words: firstborn and creature denote something created. Furthermore, Proverbs 8 teaches about wisdom, and says in verse 22 that the Lord possessed wisdom “in the beginning of his way”. How could a God who has always changelessly existed as God have any kind of beginning?

19. A God who has always existed cannot be a changeless being. To illustrate, if God is eternal and everything else was created by Him out of nothing, then God is infinitely older than even His oldest creation. Thus God would have spent eternities doing nothing before becoming a creator.

20. Trinitarians believe God has all glory and there can be no Gods after him. But isn’t a God who can exalt mankind more glorious than a God who can’t?

21. Trinitarians point out that believing God was once a man is a way of abasing Him. However, Jesus Christ was once man, even died as a man, and yet can be fully recognized as God now. For this reason it’s safe to assume that removing eternal status does not diminish Godhood.

22. Trinitarians point out Isaiah 43:10 which says: Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Although this verse appears to shut down Mormonism single-handedly, it is a double-edged sword. For one thing, if Jehovah says there were no Gods formed before Him and none shall be formed after him, isn’t he saying that he was in fact formed? In LDS theology Jehovah is unique in that he was formed as a God rather than a human with the potential to grow into Godhood. Due to this fact Latter-day Saints can agree that no God was formed before or after Jehovah, but for lack of a better word, Gods may yet be evolved.

23. The Trinitarian concept is built on scriptures like Isaiah 44:8 where the Lord says: Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have I not told thee from that time, and have declared it? Ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any. In Isaiah 45:21-22 God goes on to say: Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take council together: who hath declared this from ancient time? Have not I the LORD? And there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. Trinitarians take these verses literally to mean there is no God physically present besides Jehovah. But these verses can also be taken metaphorically. For instance, if a skilled architect said there was no architect beside her, it would elevate her skill above all others, rather than eliminate the presence of other architects. When God says there is no God beside him, he clarifies that there is no other Savior, and that we must look to Him to be saved. Latter-day Saints recognize that there may be other Gods, but believe fully and without exception that salvation can only come in and through the name of Jesus Christ. In this sense there is only one God.

24. In its original Hebrew context, Psalms 8:4-5 says: What is man that thou art mindful of him? And the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the Gods, and hast crowned him with glory and honor. If man is only a little lower than the Gods, why couldn’t God have once been a man? Or why can’t mankind ever be exalted?

25. The Trinity concept exists because it is widely considered blasphemy to believe in more than one God, or that man may become a God. In fact, because the Jews thought Jesus was a man claiming Godhood, they accused him of blasphemy and tried to stone him. In John 10:34-36 Jesus answered, “Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?” Here the Messiah points out Psalms 82:6 which says: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. Basically Jesus was saying, “The scriptures say you are gods, but I am only claiming to be the Son of God. How is that blasphemy?” If Christ’s claim of being the Son of God isn’t as bold as that made by Psalms 82:6, how is it blasphemy to say mankind may be exalted?

26. If ever there was a passage of scripture that appeared to introduce the Trinity it’s John 1:1 which says: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. However, it should be noted that God is a title. Thus the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost can all be God without being a triune God just as three mayors, governors, or kings can hold the same title while remaining distinctly separate.

27. Trinitarians use verses like Psalms 139:7-10 and Jeremiah 23: 23-24 to imply that God is omnipresent and fills heaven and earth, and define the triune God as a spirit that permeates the universe. 1 Kings 8:27 states: But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, the heaven, and heaven of heavens, cannot contain Thee: how much less this house that I have builded? At first glance, it may not seem like 1 Kings 8:27 can mean anything other than that God’s person cannot physically fit in heaven, but anyone who’s heard the phrase “This town’s not big enough for the both of us” knows such a phrase can denote someone’s ego being too grand for a place. From an LDS perspective God inhabits one place, but his spirit, also called the light of Christ, permeates the universe. Now that’s not to say that Latter-day Saints don’t believe God is capable of being omnipresent, we simply believe He doesn’t have to be an enormous immaterial spirit to pull it off. For example, if time is not an issue, then He doesn’t have to fill all of physical reality to be omnipresent.

28. Isaiah the prophet wrote: In the year that King Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. This verse is of particular interest because not only does Isaiah see God, but God inhabits a specific place on the throne, and his train fills the temple. Isaiah differentiates between God and His train. This supports the LDS doctrine that God has a body, and that it is His influence, called the Light of Christ, that permeates the universe.

29. How can the Trinity be made up of three co-equals sharing one essence when Jesus plainly stated, “The Father is greater than I.” in John 14:28? Or what about the fact that the Father knows the day of the second coming, but the Son does not (Mark 13:32)?

30. The Father and the Son have their own respective wills, as depicted by Christ’s plea in the Garden of Gethsemane in Mark 14:36, “Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.” If they are separate this is a nonissue, but one God with more than one will is a huge problem because it makes God a man. Paul said he had members warring against the law of his mind and bringing him down into captivity to the law of sin. This led him to exclaim, “O wretched man that I am!” as if to say that having two wills is part of what it means to be human.

31. In John 20:17 Christ says to Mary, “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” One member of the Godhead referring to another as ‘my God’ depicts a clear line of authority rather than a trio of equals sharing one essence.

32. At one point while on the cross, Christ cried, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” A physical abandonment by the Father separates the essence between Father and Son, while a forsaken relationship allows for disunity within the Trinity.

33. The strongest Trinitarian verse in the Bible is 1 John 5:7 which states: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. However, this verse was not found in Greek manuscripts until the 1500s, and is believed to be unauthentic by Christian scholarship.

34. The Trinity concept cannot reconcile the contradiction between an invisible God who can’t be seen, and a God so glorious it would physically kill us to see Him. And if God truly were a Spirit that was everywhere and in everything, there could be nowhere we could look without seeing Him, and if it were so dangerous, our race should have gone extinct by now.

35. In Trinitarian belief, God is without body parts. Then what, pray tell, are the three manifestations? Are they not three parts of one God? Furthermore, in Exodus 33 God allowed Moses to see his ‘back parts’ but not His face!

36. Deuteronomy 4:27-28 reads: And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, wither the LORD shall lead you. And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. Moses implies that false gods are inferior to the true God because they cannot see, hear, eat, or smell. However, the only instruments the Trinity possessed for these functions were Christ’s physical body parts, and those weren’t available until the virgin birth. The God of Moses could eat, but Trinitarians believe in a God who is a spirit, and therefore a God incapable of consumption. When Jesus was resurrected, he proved he had a physical body by eating. So Trinitarians must admit that either God is a spirit who cannot eat, or that Christ wasn’t being totally honest with his disciples. Now some Evangelicals will argue that those who would worship false gods would only say they could see, hear, eat, and smell, but this is beside the point! Is God omnipotent or isn’t He?

37. The Old Testament says several times that there is only one God, and while this is the backbone of Trinitarian belief, it may mean something other than three Gods must be crammed into one. In John 17:3 Christ prays to the Father and says, “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” The messiah specifically called the Father the ‘only true God’. This implies two things: first, that the Father in and of Himself constitutes one God, and second, that while the Son and the Holy Ghost are Gods, the Father holds precedence as the only true God. After all, didn’t Jesus say his Father was greater than him? Didn’t Paul say that although there were lords many and gods many, to us there is but one God? During the Passover, Christ told his disciples, “The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.” Christ would know, since the Father sent him to die for the world. The Son and the Holy Ghost were both sent by the Father, and so there are three deities, but only one true God at the top of the chain of command.

38. In John 8:17-18 Christ says, "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bears witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me." Here, the Father and the Son are represented as two, and as every mathematician knows, two does not equal one.

39. Psalms 95:3 says: For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods. Is it any honor to be called the king of false gods? Or is there more than one God? Furthermore, God is celebrated as Lord of Lords, King of Kings, and God of Gods. One of his titles is The Most High God. This title alone denotes the presence of lesser gods.

6 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  2. Great points Michael F.

    When I was about 17 years old, I met some evangelical Christians who were distributing literature critical of the LDS Church during a 24th of July celebration in SLC (interrupting our rejoicings :). As a 17-year-old boy, I could already see the contradictions as I listened to a 30-something-year-old man criticize our beliefs, including our belief in a physical, embodied God. I asked him, "Do you believe Christ and the Father are one being?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Do you believe in Christ's resurrection?" He said, "Yes." I concluded, "Then in your theology God MUST have a body [in the form of Christ], whether he currently wears it or not. What does he do with that body if or when he isn't wearing it?" He responded, "That is one of the mysteries of God."

    Really there is no need for complicated exigeses, debates, or councils of scholars to solve the apparent contradictions between Old and New Testament Gods. Christ resolved the question perfectly in John 17 (as you pointed out). In that chapter he asks that his disciples be made one EVEN AS he and the Father are one. I know of no evangelical Christian who assumes this means that we become one in essence with the Father and Son. They understand it to mean a unity of will or purpose. So the Old Testament scriptures indicating that there is one God must be interpreted in this light: that there is no battling pantheon of gods as in the pagan religions. There is no God outside of the type of perfect agreement represented in the relationship between the Father and Son. That God invites us into that same godly relationship, not only as servants, but also as gods (rulers), heirs and joint-heirs (Romans 8:17), is made explicit in Revelation 3, verse 21: "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, EVEN AS I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

    If evangelical Christians consider this blasphemy, it is Christ against whom their accusation must be made. For we only accept him at his word. We believe that it is only by Christ's power and invitation that such a thing could be possible.

    Mike R.

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  3. Thanks Mike R,

    I like that point you brought up too. Sometimes I'm surprised to hear other Christians accuse us of blasphemy when their own views are so close to ours. For example, the view that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinctly separate despite being one in essence. And that God does have a body in the form of Christ's resurrection. I've also met Christians who think Melchezidek was Christ and can't help but wonder if they think Melchezidek was then a spirit?

    Anyways I could probably ramble on forever about the unanswerable questions the Trinity fallacy brings up. So I'll stop here.

    P.S. Looking forward to the day you decide to blog with us again :)

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  4. Michael,

    This post would greatly benefit from some citations. You consistently claim something to the effect of "Trinitarians believe..." However, I would argue that your assertions in most cases are straw men (i.e., misrepresentations of Trinitarian doctrine). The simplified (or often times wrong) assertions you put in the mouths of Trinitarians are easily debunked. I think you will find your apologia more effective if you accurately represent your opponent's positions.

    A couple of examples: I am unfamiliar with any Trinitarian or theist for that matter who would agree with #6: "6. If the Trinity is so mysterious and God is “unknown and unknowable”, how is anyone expected to achieve life eternal, which is to know the one true God?" If someone affirms the existence of God then clearly they believe Him to be "known." What you have articulated is an agnostic's position and attributed it to Trinitarians. Trinitarians such as the Cappadocian Fathers, Athanasius, and others have affirmed the apprehensibility of God but denied his comprehensibility. In other words, we can know true things about God, but the capacity of our understanding cannot exhaust the depth of who God is. This is a far cry from what you have asserted.

    Would be happy to dialogue about this or any other of your 40 points to which you find yourself particularly drawn. As I read them I consistently asked out loud, "Has Michael actually considered the actual arguments being made or doctrines that have been affirmed throughout the history of the church?" Looking forward to talking to you again.

    Jonathan

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  5. Jonathan,

    I have removed #6 from my list, and will do so with any other of my 39 points that I come to discover are not accurate representations of Trinitarian doctrine. In all honesty, I'd be perfectly happy coming to a point where we simply agree to disagree.

    Even you must admit, however, that the wording for some Trinitarian beliefs are inherently confusing such as "unknown and unknowable" and "without passions". It seems to me that if these things aren't what Trinitarians mean them to be, they should be changed.

    -Michael

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  6. My Heavenly Father gave me a revelation about the meaning of 666, the number of the beast. It was yesterday close to 6:00 PM. I was thinking about the mark of the beast and suddenly, the Light came in! It's glorius and it's for this time. Most of the serious Bible scholars know that the words “…in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Spirit, and these three are one”, are in fact an apocryphal addition to the original text, that can be traced back as far as the 16th Century. The added words "these three are one" MATCH PERFECTLY Revelation 13:16 "Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man: and his number is Six hundred and sixty and six. (American Standard Version) The Trinity Doctrine is the name of the beast. That meaning can be understood more likely in all the languages of the world, even chinese, korean, japanese, that could not understant the earlier explanations with the Latin Language. May my Heavenly Father bless your understanding! Bro. Michael

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